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Making Data-Driven Decisions Across the Customer Journey with Luke Trewin, Founder and Managing Director of Modern Visual

In this episode of the Revenue Insights Podcast, host Lee Bierton is joined by Luke Trewin, Founder and Managing Director of Modern Visual, a consulting service focused on delivering strategic and revenue strategies to its clients. They discuss how to create a data foundation for scalability and how to use analytics to gather decision-making insights across the customer journey. Luke also shares insights on how to overcome analysis paralysis syndrome. 

Luke Trewin is the Founder and Managing Director of Modern Visual. After building a popular MSN Messenger bot at 13 and earning thousands a month from Google Adsense at 14, Luke founded his first startup, Modern Visual, in 2014. Luke now helps mid-market & enterprise businesses deploy growth strategies through software, workflows and change management. The outcome is efficiency gains, saving you money and removing friction from your business. 

Time Stamps:

  • 00:38 – 04:53 – Luke’s Story
  • 05:51 – 07:10 – How Modern Visual supports the digital transformation of businesses
  • 07:42 – 09:04 – How APAC customers are facing similar headwinds as the US and EMEA
  • 09:35 – 11:04- Overcoming the challenge of analysis paralysis
  • 11:42 – 13:21 – How to align teams using the customer journey
  • 14:03 – 16:08 – How to create a healthy data foundation to create a scalable business
  • 16:53 – 19:03 – How to get value back from your tech stack
  • 19:56 – 22:10 – Creating a single source of truth through your data
  • 22:17 – 23:34- Essential tools to enhance HubSpot’s CRM
  • 23:44 – 27:25- How Modern Visual helped a global business to scale with a clean data foundation
  • 27:47 – 29:48 – Overcoming the challenge of the lack of a data centre in APAC
  • 30:24 – 32:25- Luke’s Book Recommendation: Traction and Get a Grip by Gino Wickman

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Mapping out the customer journey, putting in the time to do that well and do that properly, is more critical than ever.

You know, understanding what are those stages that people go through when they’re dealing with the organization, both as a new customer and also as an existing customer.

Welcome to Revenue Insights. Every week, we’ll be joined by revenue leaders from some of the most successful and highest growing companies.

Together, we explore how they built their revenue teams, the journeys that they’ve been on and the lessons they have learned along the way. Revenue Insights is brought to you by Ebsta. We’re a revenue intelligence platform designed to help revenue teams to build more pipeline, close more deals and retain more customers.

Hello there and welcome to Revenue Insights. Today’s guest is Luke Trewin. Luke’s the founder and managing director of Modern Visual.

They help mid-market and enterprise businesses grow through strategy, software and change management.

Luke, great to chat to you today.

Thanks, Lee. I’m really happy to be here.

Well, let’s start with a bit more about yourself, about Modern Visual. I don’t think I’ve really done it justice in my short intro there. So tell us a little bit more about your story and the story of your business.

Sure. So my story, I guess from a relevance perspective, started when I was around the age of 12 or 13 and we got our first family computer.

My mom, who was a single mom, saved up a lot of money to buy that computer and I very quickly became obsessed with this thing. I remember being at a cousin’s party and we had it in the car. We’d bought it that day and I was just so desperate to get home to have a go at this computer. It was a Windows XP Celeron machine for those nerds listening.

And very quickly, I just became obsessed with this thing and the Internet. And I started learning to program through this computer. I became very quickly obsessed with Linux and learning that operating system. And I guess I started to form this world online back in the early 2000s as a young teenager.

And, you know, like I built an MSN Messenger robot, for example, that became quite popular. I ran a hosting business. I managed to convince a guy that I’d look after his server farm of Linux computers or servers if he gave me my own. So that enabled me to have my own server. And I was able to, again, do the MSN robot. I was able to have a hosting company.

I had many websites with Google AdSense there, earning a couple of thousand dollars a month. And I built this whole world online.

And, you know, I was loving what I was doing.

And, you know, I had these guys that were like staff members working for nothing because they want to be a part of something like the robot, for example. And it all came crashing down when the server got hacked. We got DDoS attacked and this whole empire I’d built as a young teenager fell apart. And I had to sort of kiss it all goodbye.

And at that stage, mom was harassing me to get a job. And I needed to do something with my life. And I actually went and saw my careers teacher at my school. I’d actually dropped out of school in year 10. And this careers teacher helped me find a job as a printer. So I ended up becoming a label printer, you know, beer labels, product labels. And I did that for close to 10 years.

And it just felt like Groundhog Day in the end. I was working in a factory. I was running a printing press.

You know, I had my manager, you know, great guy. So we’re talking now, but, you know, obviously barking orders at me and being very strict. And it just didn’t feel like it was for me. I’d gotten over it.

So my wife actually said to me, you know, Luke, what about all those things you used to do when you’re a young teenager online, like websites and all that stuff?

Why don’t you do that as a bit of a hobby to make some extra money?

And I said, look, that’s a great idea. So literally overnight, I started, you know, a hosting business, just reselling services through another hosting business.

And really quickly, my old boss, actually, at the time, a great guy, not the manager, my boss who owned the company, pulled me into his office one day and said, Luke, you’re into this computer stuff, aren’t you?

I just had this website built.

Like, is it any good?

What do you think it’s worth?

And I looked at this website and I said, I don’t know, like 500 bucks. And he goes, I just paid six grand.

I’m like, oh, is that good?

He’s like, doesn’t bother. It looks great. And I’m like, okay, no, I think it’s fine. So I walked out with this massive light bulb above my head and I thought, you know, I could actually build websites. I used to do that when I was a young teenager, because this is obviously years later. And I went straight home and researched websites and how to build them. And I found this WordPress thing.

I’m like, what’s WordPress all about?

And very quickly, and to keep it short, I ended up starting a web design business alongside my hosting business after hours. And very quickly, I was able to drum up, you know, a lot of business. And after 12 months, I managed to leave my printing job and go full time with web design and hosting.

And from there, I was able to introduce new services like marketing services, digital marketing, SEO, Google Ads, et cetera, and end up hiring more people and more people and more people. And that’s what Modern Visual became, was a full service digital agency. And then around 2018, we actually decided that marketing wasn’t really for us. And we’re doing a lot more of a technical service at the time.

And we’ve just become a HubSpot partner, for example. So we decided to get rid of all our marketing services and double down on things like rev ops and integrations and business consulting. And we obviously had that expertise, but we just wanted to make sure that was what we really stuck to as a business and double down on what we were good at.

And we took that leap of faith and it’s paid off. So that’s just a bit of a summary of myself and Modern Visual, one of the businesses I run. I love the journey really that you’ve been on.

And even coming into this, I didn’t actually realize you’d been working in printers for what?

Ten years?

I’m a qualified printer, so I’ve actually got a certificate in printing. Which is amazing.

And the word that kind of stood out to me as part of that is almost like the transformation, right?

Even your transformation and then also the transformation of your business. And I think that’s going to be something that really comes up a number of times as we chat today. So in the here and the now, and you kind of touched on it a little bit there at the end.

So in terms of the businesses and customers that you’re working with, can you just give a bit more color and context behind the size that they are, kind of where they are in their journey and their transformation and typically how you are working with them?

So we do receive a lot of referrals through HubSpot. We’ve become one of their top partners in the APAC region where we’re located. We’re in Melbourne, Australia. So a lot of the work we do revolves around HubSpot. So thinking about things like onboarding brand new customers to HubSpot, getting them set up and trained.

We might have a larger project, so it could be setting up a number of complex integrations, doing that onboarding component, helping with the entire tech stack, helping with setting up processes in the business. So there’s a lot of that type of work that goes on. And typically the businesses that we help with those types of projects are that sort of mid market to lower end enterprise.

So the sort of 20 seat to 300 seat business, obviously there’s no fixed rules around that, but that tends to be our sweet spot. When I started the business, we were very much working with small businesses. And I think for us and our expertise, it just didn’t suit longer term for the business. I think we’re almost a bit overqualified, if that makes sense.

We’re running workshops for clients that were quite sophisticated and just went over their heads, a lot of these small business owners. So I think that’s where we really found our sweet spot in that mid market to lower end corporate space.

So for those customers that you’re particularly working with at the minute then, what are the kind of headwinds that they’re facing going into now that we’re in 2023?

I know that a lot of the clients that you work with are typically in the ANZ or APAC regions. So interested to know, because I’m sure a lot of the listeners to the podcast are either over in the US or in Europe.

So interested to know, are you seeing kind of similar headwinds where you are and what’s kind of the state of play right now?

I think we typically see a bit of a delay or a lag behind Europe or the UK, for example, specifically. I think that’s changing though. I feel like our lags disappearing and we’re coming a little bit more in line with what you’re seeing at your end of the world. We’re seeing a lot of, I guess, cost cutting going on with some of our clients.

So they’re concerned about their overheads, like their software pricing, their staffing. They’re almost preparing to batten down the hatches in advance. So obviously, there’s not as much economic slowdown yet, but they’re getting prepared for that. So we’re seeing a lot of that. And there’s also obviously a lot of interest in automations, a lot of interest in AI, for example. It’s quite a buzzword at the moment, as you probably know.

So there’s a lot of interest in replacing what team members are doing with systems that can do that on their behalf. And that just means that you’re running, I guess, more of a team that’s almost generating thoughts versus just doing labor based tasks. So that’s kind of a hot topic at the moment. We’re just seeing, I guess, a bit of, let’s call it analysis paralysis.

People are sort of umming and ah-ing about what decisions I need to make and when.

And yeah, so it’s a bit of a mixed bag, to be honest.

Really, I love the phrase analysis paralysis. So let’s dig into that a little bit more.

So can you give a bit more context around that perhaps with regards to some of the customers that you’re working with?

So is that a case where they’ve got loads and loads of data and no idea what to do with it?

Are they in a state of, well, we’ve got some data, but we can’t trust it?

Could you speak a bit more around that in terms of kind of what you mean?

Yeah, I think there’s a lot of customers that have had ambition to do a lot of great things over the last, say, three or four years. But they’ve seen them as nice to haves and now they’ve almost, they’re now seeing them as necessities.

So, you know, having a really clean database, for example. I think I heard at HubSpot’s inbound conference last year that only 3% of businesses feel that their database is really perfect and on point. So I think I’m seeing a lot of that type of work. We’ve been approached that type of work. Sorry.

So people wanted to make sure that they’ve got great segmentation, they’ve got clean data, everything’s got capital letters, emails aren’t missing, things like that. Because obviously that’s quite important. If you think about, you know, getting the most out of your database, if you’re sending out targeted email campaigns or personalizing your experience on your website, or if you have a members portal or anything like that, that data has to be perfect.

So I think that’s a big thing we’re seeing. I think a lot of people are approaching us as well, just to ensure their systems are, I guess, maximized from a features perspective.

You know, like people are wanting to like, almost like a bit of an audit of everything in their business and just make sure that they’re getting value from the software they’re using, even making decisions around their software in general.

Is it the right choice for their organization?

You know, can we save money by consolidating systems as well?

That’s a big hot topic at the moment as well. I love the 3% have confident that they’ve got perfect data and it’s not overly surprising as well. We’ve had a lot of guests on the podcast and that’s it’s one of those perennial pains of, you know, having good data that you can trust or even like to the level of being perfect.

So could you give an example of perhaps some tactics, initiatives that you use to help your customers to get to that almost a utopian state, shall we say, of having a great kind of foundation of data in your CRM?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think really important and this is again something that people have seen as a bit of a nice to have sometimes, depending obviously the size of their org. But mapping out that customer journey, putting in that time to do that well and do that properly is more critical than ever.

You know, understanding what are those stages that people go through when they’re dealing with the organization, both as a new customer and also as an existing customer seeking support or further services.

You know, just thinking about things like what are their thoughts, feelings, what are their emotions, you know, what are the touch points that they’re going through on that journey?

So all those things needs to be mapped out quite well. That then allows you obviously to segment your data based on those customer journeys.

So who’s trying to achieve what and who are they?

So start to think about people based on their persona, their, you know, things like their industry, their role in their organization, things like that. So that allows you to really start to personalize some of the content that you can distribute to people. And then obviously off the back of all of that, just getting super accurate reporting on the organization.

So being really data driven about pretty much decisions you’re making as an org. So making sure that you’re looking at attribution reporting, we’re looking at touch points that people are going through in that journey.

Again, that journey has to exist and be mapped out for you to measure that and do that well. So there’s some of the things that I think really need to happen for people in 2023 if they want to compete and win business and succeed. And if there is a storm, ride it out.

You have to just get really smart with all those things that were, you know, in the past, nice to have because we had such a strong economy.

Yeah, 100%. And I’m interested to know, because obviously I can kind of visualize in my head, you know, what that customer journey looks like.

And obviously all of that is then going to hinge on that foundation of data that you’ve got in your CRM, right?

So the, you know, what you’ve got in your contact record now. To people who listen to this, they’ll be using a range of different CRMs, but we can talk about this from a HubSpot perspective because that’s what you know really well.

So what’s the secret to getting that specific foundation right in the first place and having good data, clean data as well that you can then use to do that?

Next step of the customer journey?

I think there’s always two types of businesses. There’s the ones and it’s typically the ones that have say a new startup, but they’ve been born in the last few years as a company. They might be quite strict if the founders obviously experienced. They might from the start have really clean data and then they’re really religious with how they enter that data. Most businesses though have a bit of a hot mess.

I’ll call it from a starting point. So what we typically do is use tools like InCycle for example to manipulate that data, duplicate data and get that in a really good spot. Also consider how that data is utilized with the rest of your tech stacks.

If you have integrations, for example, you want to make sure that you don’t have one system sending junk data into your CRM and it’s just a vicious cycle. So that’s something to think about as well. But just having really strong business rules and processes in place to make sure people are entering data correctly. They’ve got the right routine in place for the day.

Different roles in the organization understand what their specific duties are, not just a blanket training approach, for example, to how to use a system. And I think as well people need to have buy-in with the systems as well. You can’t say to your team you have to just go and use this system no matter what.

I think again if people are involved in that process of forming how the business operates, how the software operates within that organization, you’re going to get their buy-in. We often see businesses come along to purchase something like say HubSpot for example in our services and they’re like, oh, we’ve got a few people in the organization. They’re not going to like change. I hope you’re good at that.

And that’s something we do specialize in is that change management piece. And that’s obviously the human side of an organization. Often we’re so fixated on the software and the features and what it can do. We often forget there’s going to be real people waking up, getting out of bed, brushing their teeth, and then going to work or going to their home office and actually sitting down and using these systems.

And we often again completely forget that. And that’s the secret sauce to making sure your data is top notch or clean is making sure that the humans are happy that are using the system. It’s a really good point. And it’s often as you touched on the part that’s overlooked as part of it.

And I know as part of the work that you guys do alongside the change management is like bringing in the software, right?

For example, bringing in HubSpot. So what would you say then are the three most important parts of actually bringing in new software that actually people buy into that they believe in that it’s not just the case of, Oh, God, I’m being told what to do again.

It’s, you know, ideally showing them the value of this is why you’re doing this is how you how it helps you to your job better.

So in your experience, what would be those top three ways of doing that?

Yeah, I think the top three ways are number one, ensuring that the most appropriate people are involved in the buying decision process. So the sales process, make sure that those people are workshopping ideas. It’s not just a marketing manager, for example, making decisions for the sales team or, you know, a CEO buying because his buddy decided that he’s got that CRM as well, for example.

So involving key people from the organization in the buying or the sales process is really important. That’s number one. Number two would probably be, I think, just making sure that you’ve chosen the right software in the first place. So there’s obviously a myriad of software available out there. I think what I would say is go for the software that makes the most sense for your organization.

It was quite funny, I actually saw there was a CRM, I won’t name names, that was labeled as boomerware the other day. It was quite funny.

You know, it’s almost like, yeah, we’ve moved on from that. I saw youngins, but I think, you know, there’s the CRM,, you know, just a shameless plug to HubSpot really easy to use, like it’s designed to be extremely easy to adopt. And every screen you deal with looks the same. It just has a different sort of use case.

So I think, you know, obviously, again, evaluate what the best solution is for you is number two and make sure that, you know, it suits your organization because it runs the same. I think number three, like, again, bring it back to your overall tech stack like every tool you have in your tool belt needs to have a specific function and be a valid contributing team member in the software suite.

So we’re in the tech stack. So I think just making sure that you understand overall what your tech stack looks like and make sure that everything has its place. Make sure that if you can consolidate as many systems into one as possible, that’s going to give you obviously a lot less fragile, you know, systems and it’s going to lead to less issues from a reliability perspective.

But you’re also getting a lot more data and data available to you if everything as possible is in one place.

So that’s, you know, for example, sales marketing service, if you can have those in one tool on a single code base, then obviously you’re going to have a much better experience with that tool. I really like the point around having, you know, getting value from each tool that you have in your tech stack.

So I’m curious to know and I suspect that this might be a case of specific on a case by case basis.

But for the companies that you’re working with, what is the kind of core tech stack look like?

What are the kind of core components you’re including in there?

Because you talked a bit around like the user having the customer journey mapped out. You’ve got your lesson vision, they’ve got their reporting and their dashboards set up at that point. I’m going to assume they’re probably using HubSpot as a CRM based on what we’ve talked about.

So what are kind of key components that you recommended that they include from there?

Yeah. So one of the things that we bring up with a lot of business, especially businesses that are a bit like not huge, but a bit larger that might have multiple departments and multiple systems is, you know, really make sure you decide what your central source of truth is for your data.

So, you know, for example, a client might have an inventory system in place in their warehouse. So like it could be a Sin7 or a Deere systems, etc. They might have an ERP, which is taking care of a lot of their accounting and, you know, they might have obviously their CRM. They might have God, I mean, Xero, like, you know, that’s obviously another accounting package.

So it’s just making sure that like, what is the source of truth for the data?

Like, if we’re going to say, what is the center point?

Like, what is the main area that we’re going to access everything?

Typically, that’s at the cold face of your client.

So, you know, where are the key people in the organization to do with clients entering data? That’s typically your CRM. So that’s where you would ensure that that is at the epicenter of everything you’re doing. And then around that, you would obviously choose systems that are really good at what they do.

Obviously, it’s beneficial to have a connection there to a system that’s, you know, a specialist in their industry, I’ll call it.

So, again, like SYN7 is an inventory system, and it’s an amazing inventory system. Not everyone will agree with that. Most will. So it makes sense to use that for that purpose. And then obviously, like a HubSpot, for example, or Salesforce, or whatever it may be, will sit right at the center of that tech stack as the source of truth.

And then what I’m going to push towards then is, and I know with HubSpot, you’ve got various different kind of what I’m thinking is whenever I talk to anyone that uses Salesforce, it’s, well, I need the sales enablement tool. And obviously with HubSpot, a lot of that is actually baked in.

So what are the common kind of tools that you might be, once you’ve got that single source of truth, what are you then recommending that they’re adding on top of it? Is it fairly bespoke?

Obviously, I know with HubSpot’s app marketplace, there’s a huge range of different ways that you can kind of augment and improve that environment that you’re working with.

But is there any common ones that come to mind with clients that you’re working with that you’re using to really improve the experience of that HubSpot CRM?

Yeah, so you’ve obviously got HubSpot’s main hubs. You’ve got marketing hub, sales hub, service hub, and then there’s two additional hubs, the CMS, which is your website, which could be like a WordPress replacement, for example. Then you’ve got OpsHub or OperationsHub, which is more about integrations, data hygiene, automations, things like that. So if we think of those main hubs, that marketing, sales, service, that does cover a lot of that customer journey.

Where you might want to look elsewhere or add as an addition to that is, I guess where you’re pushing HubSpot to its limits is to what it does well.

So, Ebsta, great example, right?

Like HubSpot’s got its reporting tools that are built in.

However, it doesn’t extend anywhere near what Ebsta can do from a revenue reporting perspective, a rev ops perspective. So that’s a great example in that marketplace for HubSpot where it’s a fantastic extension to what HubSpot can do. HubSpot’s reporting is great, but it’s not amazing where Ebsta just really specializes a team in that rev ops or that revenue generation space.

HubSpot just doesn’t have the bandwidth to do everything and anything to that level. So that’s just where that makes the most sense. And obviously there’s many other examples in the app marketplace where it’s similar.

I’m keen to take us on the journey of going a bit more into specifics with some of the clients that you work with. I think through a lot of the things that we’ve kind of talked around, it’s really this journey of transformation. So having that single source of truth through to being able to map that customer journey, to being able to have those segmented lists.

So could you talk around perhaps one example of a digital transformation project that you’ve worked on over the last 12 months that you’re particularly proud of?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, I mean, just to mention it as well, we have clients where we’re offering almost like a stock, standard offering. So like I mentioned earlier on in the piece, it might be a HubSpot onboarding, it could be a website build or an integration. There’s those clients where there’s just like, this is what I need done and I need it done.

Where we really shine, I guess, beyond that is where clients want to solve a very unique challenge and they’re not sure how to approach it or how to solve that. And the example that comes to mind is one of our clients there. They’re actually founded in Melbourne, Australia, where I’m based. And they’re now a global business. They’re the head office in New York.

And one of their challenges was that they’re actually trying to do a capital raise and they didn’t actually have the data in place that they could showcase to investors to show the growth that they’d been actually having as an organization. They’re an existing HubSpot customer. And where it can obviously fall down is where there’s no real business rules in place around who’s an administrator, who’s locked down.

Like, obviously setting up global teams, people might not be talking to each other around decisions and things like that. So these guys had pushed HubSpot’s reporting to its limits and they weren’t sure how to get the right data in place.

So, for example, in HubSpot, a deal has to move in sequential order through a sales pipeline to get the correct reporting. And what we did, we actually built a custom system, like a web application, that connected to HubSpot to provide reporting around the least likely and most likely scenario of a deal closing based on pipeline stage.

So that was able to give them that data they needed for that capital raise, as just one example. Beyond that, that was the first project we’re engaged for and they thought that’s amazing. They were able to do that. So we’ll then engage from a business coaching or consulting perspective to help this business align their global sales teams.

They had multiple pipelines set up per region, they had obviously issues where staff were creating properties in HubSpot at their own leisure. Someone had created a pipeline stage that no one knew what it was for. So globally, they weren’t aligned as an organization.

And where we really came in was obviously helping them consult and interviewed every team member around the world to make sure that we understood their needs and their pain points and their challenges and also their regional requirements. So if you’re territorial, you can’t just have the same process all the time. There might be specific regional things that need to be considered. An area could be more fire prone, for example.

So there’s different ways that they sell the product. There’s just one example. So making sure that those regional differences were considered, but we’re aligning them on a global strategy. So that was something we did and then obviously implemented that. We basically ripped out HubSpot, rebuilt it all, and got it all up and running and everyone was on the right page from a change management perspective.

So that’s a project that comes to mind I was quite proud of and they had a very specific challenge and that grew from a challenger’s perspective. We were able to solve that in a big way. 

That’s amazing. I want to ask you off the back of that then, because that’s a great example where you’ve found successes. Is there a particular, let’s say, business challenge that you’re trying to solve at the minute that you’ve not quite got to the bottom of?

So perhaps a challenge that you’re particularly passionate about solving but haven’t quite cracked the nut of yet. It’s a good question.

Is this for a client or for us or both?

You can take it in whatever way that you want to, right?

If there’s a particular client in mind, yes, that would be great. I’ll leave you to decide which way. I think it’s really a question of what springs to mind first. I find that there’s always something that you’re just like, yep, there’s something that’s really bugging me and has been for a while.

Yeah, the one that comes to mind is not something that we have control over, but it’s a big problem for us. It doesn’t affect you as much in your end of the world, but HubSpot doesn’t have a data center in our region. And regularly we’re coming up with prospects in the government space, fintech, financial organizations, things like that where compliance is really important and legislation around data sovereignty.

So that is a big challenge we face here in the APAC region is, unfortunately, the fact that we don’t have a data center locally here where there’s one in Germany and I believe there’s one in the US on Amazon. So that’s a big one on our wishlist and we do have a workaround that we built. It’s actually a CRM card so we can house external information in a CRM card in HubSpot.

And that’s API’d into HubSpot, but it is quite limited in what it can do. It just stores additional information in HubSpot. Everything like email, etc. still has to live offshore. So probably not exactly what you’re after, but that is just a very big challenge that we face regularly. I guess when it comes to clients, our job is to solve their problems.

So I think we haven’t really come across something that we haven’t been able to solve. It’s more that there might be a compromise every now and then that needs to be made.

I think the biggest problems we have is when someone just hasn’t bought in as a, you know, they’ve got excited, they bought software, but they’re not prepared to put in the blood, sweat and tears to make it a success in their organization. So that’s just a general response.

Yeah, I think that makes total sense to me. And that I find is the beauty of the question because a lot of the time through the things we talk about, it’s like, yeah, you know, there is the solution to everything.

But the reality is, is there’s often things that there isn’t the perfect solution to, right?

And what’s actually so interesting around that is what I’d call the band aid solution, right? That you find around it to make it work.

All right, I’m going to move to the final questions. We move to wrap up.

What is one book that you’d recommend to other as a revenue leaders or leaders that you’re working with?

Good question. I’m not a huge book fan. I don’t like reading books, but I love listening to books in the car on my walks at the gym. And I’m going to sort of skew this a little bit. There’s actually two books that are almost one book that I love. And that’s traction by Geno Wickman. There’s also a secondary to that, which is called Get a Grip by Geno Wickman.

And it’s basically the EOS model, which is the entrepreneurial operating system. And it’s basically a framework that you can run your entire business on that encompasses all of the areas of success that you need to make your business a success. So, the traction book is more the theory around everything. Get a Grip is actually more of a make-believe story around a business that actually implemented this system.

They went from being a shambles, nearly shutting down to a chance meeting in a bar with someone else as a business owner that had implemented it. And then this lady went and actually brought it into her business.

And just the ups and downs of having to let go of team members that were square pegs in round holes and seeing improvements in the business just at the end where they end up, which I won’t give away.

It’s just really big game changer for if you’re feeling a bit lost in your business, like you don’t have a framework in place, I highly recommend checking out Traction and also Get a Grip by Geno Wickman. I love that. We’ll include links to that in the show notes.

All right, Luke, for anyone that perhaps uses HubSpot andis just like, oh my God, I need help or wants to follow you for more of what you’re doing, where can they find you?

Yeah, so I’m on LinkedIn. I’m quite regularly active there. So just Luke Trewin on LinkedIn, That’s dot au, not dot com dot u. We’re available from our website, so you’re welcome to check that. We’re actually launching a new site in about a week or two. So it’ll either be the old one or the new one when you visit it. But that’s the main places you can find me.

Beautiful, and we’ll put links down to that below. So for anyone that can’t spell your name properly after that, they’ll be able to find it pretty easily. 

Awesome, Luke, it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much again for the conversation today and to everyone that’s listened to this episode. We’ll catch you next week.

Thanks, Lee.

Thanks for listening to Revenue Insights. If you want to learn more, subscribe to our newsletter and we’ll deliver every episode straight to your inbox. If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us on LinkedIn. Our links will be in the episode notes. See you next week.